Finally, someone passed the pugs a mic.
Hogbook and Laser Eyes (Fantagraphics, 2024) is a love story. An ever-shifting and expanding family of rescue pug narrators describe the romantic adventure of their humans meeting and joining in wedded, mentally ill, comedy-loving, dog-rescuing matrimony.
Co-authored by comedian Maria Bamford and painter Scott Cassidy (who drew the book), it’s for everyone who knows what their dog’s speaking voice would be. It is for anyone who has ever had an inside joke with their spouse or roommate about the pets.
In a delight to the dog-loving senses, an elderly pug imagines himself in Riverdance. A bag of cupcakes left out after a party turns in a sublime Templeton smorgasbord that ends at the emergency vet and a prognosis of “needs to fart”.
And never have I seen the Rainbow Bridge portrayed so beautifully.
As for the humans? They are central at the beginning of the book, after meeting on OK Cupid and going on dates on the east side of LA. Aside from the delight of watching them navigate noisy frat boy neighbors (“Dude!”), they recede to the background at a certain point, passing the mic to the senior pets, who carry much of the narrative thereafter.
The art in this book is reminiscent of early Dan Clowes.
Hand-shaded hatching, grotesque humans, and lively, spot-on portraits of the dog authors mix in with otherworldly meadows and galaxies. Certainly Mr. Cassidy included technology for coloring and some replicating, but the whole thing has an early 90s hand-drawn feel, which is my preferred aesthetic decade and comfort zone.
The only crime in Hogbook and Laser Eyes is that it is too short! I wanted to know more about the love story of the humans, “Maria” and “Scott”, especially after Scott’s diagnosis of Bipolar II. Were I reborn as Nicole Bezos, zillionaire, I would hand Scott and Maria a bag of money and command them- “What happened next? Draw it!”
My only hypothesis as to its brevity (aside from Mr. Cassidy being a painter and possibly losing patience with the isolating, painstaking process of comics), is that once the main pugs had passed to the other side, the remaining dog, Jackie, was not interested in taking up the family torch of storytelling. It happens.
I spoke with Maria and Scott over zoom, all of us in California and surrounded by elderly rescue dogs.
Enjoy.
-Nicole Georges
Scott Marvel Cassidy and Maria Bamford, photographed by Robyn Von Swank, image courtesy of Jess Guinivan PRNICOLE GEORGES: Here we go. Scott Marvel Cassidy and Maria Bamford. Welcome, my fellow Sagittarius.
SCOTT MARVEL CASSIDY: Yes.
How does it feel to be a Sagittarius in our season?
SMC: Half horse's ass-
MARIA BAMFORD: <Laugh>
Maria, what's, what's your astrological sign?
MB: Oh me, I'm Virgo.
What a combo. I would sometimes listen to other podcasts as research, and I listened to a podcast where you guys were talking about how maybe Maria loads the refrigerator as if you're on a prank show. And it doesn't seem very Virgo, and I love it.
MB: Yeah.
SMC: She's done it a few times.
MB: Yeah. There's some things that don't matter to me. Yeah, I know that there're supposed to matter and then they don't seem to matter.
SMC: No, the thing is, so she loads up the like 12 pack of Diet Colas. Right. So, all the cans are there ready to roll out. So, when you open the door, they roll out and they explode, and they explode right to you. I'm just standing there like, kaboom, kaboom. Like, oh my God, what is going on?
MB: It creates a sense of excitement, drama that you don't always have just in day-to-day activities.
So, you're doing a service to the family, making things exciting.
MB and SMC: <Laugh>
Keeping Scott on his toes. You have to find a little spice in your life somewhere. And if you're sober, sometimes those are unexpected places.
SMC: Yeah. That was very unexpected.
MB: Very unexpected. My sister's very similar. We grew up in the same household and she also tears cereal boxes from the middle.
SMC: a feral household.
MB: Yeah, but my mom was very neat, so I'm not sure what happened.
I've had multiple partners independent of each other, refer to me as a cave woman. So I do understand.
SMC: She'll walk around in her wet post shower feet, walk around on the wooden floor, and a few hours later I'll find out. Oh, all the floors are wet.
MB: Yeah, and I'd like to say that's 'cause I'm fun.
It is. 'cause You're fun. You're adding a lot of excitement.
MB: I do.
SMC: In real life, I'm a slob. So next to her, I'm not the slob anymore. Not to say you're a bad slob. Now I have to be responsible. You know what I'm saying? Come on. I just have to be responsible now, I don't like it.
MB: Okay.
SMC: That's what I'm saying.
There are things that I just don't care about where I'm like, that's just not my thing.
MB: Yeah. I think that's the thing. It's more, it's just a decision of like, this isn't the priority for me at this at this point. But then I know I like to be safe from being attacked by Diet Coke.
SMC: <laugh>
I mean, I will do that kind of prank thing for myself, where my closet is just not a functional closet. And one part of it is where I have boxes stacked and I can see them starting to lean and I'll just close the door and be like, sorry, Future Nicole.
Let's talk about your book. I was so happy- The Comics Journal really had my number. They were like, do you wanna talk about this book? And I was like, there's no other book I wanna talk about.
SMC: Oh, great.
MB: Oh, that's wonderful.
It's so beautiful. Can you describe the premise of the book before I start telling you all the things that I love about the book? Like how did it come to pass, but also what's the narrative framing of the whole thing?
SMC: Well, I do comic books anyway. I used to, I still do xeroxes or self-published, but also wanna do merch for Maria's tours. So, we just did a self-published thing. I forget what online publisher. And then I had a friend use Procreate to color it for me. 'cause I don't know how to do that kind of stuff.
MB: And then because he had made the initial comic book first issue just on his own, somebody said, oh, why don't you put it to Fantagraphics? See if they might be interested. And then they were.
SMC: But I thought that was such a long shot. 'cause Fantagraphics is sort of THE company for graphic novels. And as my friend said once I got it published, he goes, "you won the World Series."
MB: Yeah.
SMC: For, you know, comic book geeks.
Yeah. It's like you and then the Hernandez brothers.
SMC: Yeah. And Dan Clowes.
Dan Clowes- Well, I saw a lot of Dan Clowes in this.
SMC: Oh, definitely, definitely. Yeah.
It felt a lot like early-Dan-Clowes and now-Dan-Clowes as I was looking through. And all your shading and the portraits and the shadows.
SMC: Oh good. Yeah, because he's great. So, thank you.
You're welcome. So, in the book the two of you meet through OkCupid. The title of the book is a reference to both of your brilliant OkCupid usernames. Very sexy.
MB: Mm-Hmm.
Very intriguing names. Hogbook and Laser Eyes.
MB: Yeah, I was Hogbook because I was so tired of, if you put too vague a name, like, Funny Fun, or A Thoughtful Reader. Cast too wide a net. You get too many people. Everybody considers themselves that. So, I was like, I just wanna get somebody who will think this is fun, funny. And I only got one response, and it was this guy.
Thank God.
SMC: And she was the only one I contacted on that site. She saw what, like 72 people. I saw one person. This one.
Did you go on 72 dates?
MB: Well, with Funny Thoughtful as a screen name I had gone on many, many, many dates. And then when I turned it to Hogbook, then…
SMC: Just me.
MB: Just him and one inquiry where the guy just said, do you know that Hogbook is also the name for a pilot's log? That he keeps in the whatever-
SMC: Cockpit?
MB: Cockpit. And I said, I do not know that. Would you like to take me out? And he said, no,
It’s hard to have a sense of humor on a dating app. I'm really glad you found each other. Like, once I was in France and I was on Tinder and somebody, I don't know what they wrote, but I responded with a Chris Farley GIF, and then they unmatched me.
SMC: Maybe they didn't know who Chris Farley is in France.
They didn't know. And so, then it made it even worse. Like, it would've been maybe weird in the first place... And then it was double weird to be like, "what is this? Who is this person?"
SMC: They’re into Jerry Lewis over there.
MB: Jerry Lewis was very similar to Chris Farley, kind of over the top. He would love it, huh? No, Le Pétomane, the famous Farter.
SMC: Oh yeah.
MB: He was a comedian from the 1800s who just did a fart act.
SMC: For kings and queens throughout the world.
Really?
SMC: Yes.
Like, [makes trumpet sounds]
SMC: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MB: But it was through his actual colon.
Wow.
SMC: Yeah. He was a master.
MB: And he would fill his colon with water, and then he would expunge it and do little voices and create little scenes with his… It’s not anywhere on tape, which is unfortunate.
SMC: There's just an old photograph of him bent at the waist.
NICOLE: How did you find out about this?
MB: There’s books, there’s movies.
SMC: Yeah, Le Pétomane
Wait, I have a special guest I forgot to tell you about who's making a little bit of noise.
MB: Okay.
SMC: I hope it's Le Pétomane
I wish too, but it's somebody else who does drink out of the same hole that she…
MB: Aw.
SMC: Aw.
This is Hermes [revealing tortoise].
SMC: Oh my God. Hermes- Oh, hey, Hermes. How old's Hermes?
Hermes is maybe three or four.
SMC: Oh, okay. 'cause They lived to like a hundred.
MB: Hermes is handsome. Holy cow.
SMC: Where'd you get Hermes?
I got Hermes off of some people on Craigslist that were overwhelmed having a tortoise and needed to get rid of the tortoise.
SMC: Aw.
I had a weird dream about her. She was living in like a bad little tiny aquarium with no enrichment and not enough of anything. And I just, I wanted to…
MB: She needs a Barbie car.
She needs a Barbie car. She has a couch now and she has a skateboard. She kind of just wants to, I'm gonna let her walk around the office.
Are you in Altadena-ish area?
SMC: Yeah. Yeah.
Because I saw in your book that we also have similar wildlife.
SMC: Oh, yes. Bears.
There's similar terrifying wildlife. But I haven't seen the bears here, but I've seen a bobcat just walk past my office.
SMC: Well, we've had that. The day we got Muffin, a bobcat walked into our backyard. Like, where's the new talent?
I made a deal with the chihuahua, Ponyo I was like, "we're moving to Coyotes neighborhood. This is where they live..." So, I got her coyote vest. Oh, one of those like spiked kind of raver vests.
MB: Oh my gosh. I didn't even know that existed. That's wonderful.
SMC: Oh yeah. So about two weeks ago, Maria was going out of town. Right? She bought six gallons of ice cream. And I can't be left with ice cream 'cause I'll eat it all. So, I threw it out. I threw it out because I was going to eat it. So, I threw six gallons of ice cream in the trash can right outside. The next day, a bear came and ate all six gallons and then climbed over the back fence and broke the back fence. <Laugh>
Good for him.
MB: He had the time of his life. I feel bad, cause you know, when you feel like you just need ice cream. And I just needed to have a bunch of it all at once just to be there.
And I knew he was probably gonna throw it away. But anyways, it's sort of a weird practice that we do in our household. Where we've had an ice cream issue, or -I don't know if it's a beautiful dance- it's a dance of ice cream. I once bought a safe for my ice cream so that Scott couldn't get to it. And then I'd have a little safe. But then the problem is the safe freezes up in the freezer and then I can't get to the ice cream either.
It's like an evil version of something I saw on Shark Tank before. That was a snack container that was on a timer and you couldn't open it no matter what. So, if you were like a midnight snack eater, you couldn't get in there.
SMC: Wow.
MB: You just know people are like taking an AK-47 and shooting it...
Just with the hammer in the driveway-
SMC: Three in the morning.
MB: Oh my God. That's hilarious. Did they get funding? Do you remember?
I can't remember, I just remember seeing the Sharks all kind of manhandling the time locked Tupperware.
SMC: Wow.
Trying to get into it, like raccoons and unable to, being like, "wow this is really secure!"
MB: That's so funny. But now it's like, there's Instacart. You can have someone bring you an individual can of Pillsbury Crescent Rolls within minutes-
You could be like, I spent $40 on this Tupperware... and I got a Postmate here in like five minutes.
MB: I got a wonderful young man named Carlos, and we hugged, and then he gave me exactly what I needed: my snack.
Yes. I wanna talk to you about senior dogs. So, your book starts: We have the beautiful marriage, you two finding each other through okcupid.com. And then the book is told through the lens of Blueberry and Bert. We see you shepherd six different dogs into your home.
SMC: Six. Yeah.
Did six go over the Rainbow Bridge over the course of the book?
SMC: Max is still here. So, he was at the end
Oh, Max is here. Yeah, he's at the end. So, five.
MB: Yeah. Five.
Yeah. I love senior dogs.
SMC: We do too.
MB: Yes. Yeah. Muffin is the youngest dog we've had, 'cause we got her at four. So, she's the little baby.
SMC: And Pug Nation Rescue I think saw that we might do well with a younger dog just because we've had so many pass on us. Yeah.
MB: Yeah.
SMC: So, they let us have her. But Max is about almost 16 now.
MB: But older dogs are the best. I always love an older dog, 'cause you just sit around. You just sit around and love to cuddle.
Senior dogs are my favorite. I don't want all the work of a baby dog, no. When people are like, "I got a puppy!" I'm like, "oh, I feel bad for you."
SMC: Aw.
It's so much work.
MB: Yeah. I love to see a puppy. That's fun. But yeah, muffin is young enough. She loves to fetch. And she loves, I mean, I don't know if all your animals have careers.
Well, Ponyo is a podcast producer. Hermes is unemployed, but she's got things that she's trying to do that she aspires to. She just doesn't get paid for them.
MB: Right!
Like stomping over stuff, wrecking stuff, stomping back and forth on the porch, trying to find a way out. Incredible escape attempts, like hurling herself three feet off the top of her enclosure. She's got a lot going on, it's just not paid work.
MB: I know this tortoise named Cheeseburger owned by a woman named -or not owned- but I mean, he owns her, Jazz. And she is lovely. Jazz makes films about Cheeseburger doing just those things as if they're an action film.
SMC: <Laugh>
MB: Having an impact life. He could be an action star is what I'm trying to say.
Well, it feels like it 'cause When they're crawling with their big, strong legs.
SMC: Yeah.
MB: So beautiful.
What jobs do your pets have?
MB: Muffin is in fashion. So, a lot of times, she likes off the shoulder, so that's kind of her signature. So that's why she takes off a little bit of her brindle.
SMC: Usually, her arm is halfway through the brindle, it's always [an] off the shoulder kind of thing.
MB: Mm-Hmm.
SMC: You know, and she likes that style. Like, we'll put a sweater on her and it's always half off
MB: It's always off the shoulder. Yeah. but she has a couple dresses that she'll wear, and that's kind of just for Mama
SMC: <laugh>.
MB: And then she got a dress from her Auntie Koro, which is a good one. It's pretty casual. And then Max, he's a stevedore.
What is that?
SMC: It's like a longshoreman. He works down in Long Beach and he was just loading up ships and stuff and then he just went AWOL. And that's how we got him.
MB: Yeah. He just started walking up the 405 with a barrel of whiskey.
Was he upset? Did he feel like he had been, like, kidnapped by you guys?
MB: He was a union rep and he kind of got squeezed out.
Did they both have voices?
SMC: Yeah.
MB: [in Max's dog voice] Yeah.
MB: And then what is Max?
SMC: We have to be in the middle of it.
MB: [in Max's dog voice] I don't like it.
[in Maria's human voice] Yeah, they're kind of higher. They're higher in that vocal range.
[in Max's dog voice] Eh, I don't like it.
[in Maria's human voice] If we give them any vegetables,
[in Max's dog voice] This is bunk!
SMC: No, no, no. We were trying to be vegetarians for a little bit and I would give them, like, the vegetarian cheese. They would not touch it
SMC: [in Max's dog voice] This is bunk. We don't like bunk.
MB: [in Max's dog voice] What are trying to do?
MB: Yeah. What other conversations that we had with them?
MB: [in Max's dog voice] More cheese.
SMC: [in Max's dog voice] More cheese.
MB: [in Max's dog voice] We love the cheeses. Cheese. Cheeses.
MB: Anyways, there's so many, so many wonderful conversations we've had. <Laugh>,
Do they have a theme song?
SMC: You have that muffin song. [singing] "Muffin the Girl"
MB: Not so far. I tried doing some, but we haven't written one yet.
SMC: But Muffin's the tiniest girl in the entire world.
We'll also sing to any tune that's going on. We'll sing anything. So that is something that our family seems to do is just sing over and over. Weirdly, Billy Joel lyrics. [Another thing that] seems to bond the family is repetitively singing... Turkey leg, chicken leg or tribute songs.
There's a song- I don't know- is it Mariah Carey? That's like, "touch my body". Anyway, the dog sings that sometimes, you know, she sings a little, like, [singing] "touch my body, pet me on the floor, touch my body"
MB: Aww.
And then she has a whole, she has a whole musical. My former partner wrote a whole musical for her that is not recorded, of course, it just exists between us, but it's a whole about how Ponyo was found on the streets of Merced.
SMC: Aw.
[singing] "will I ever have a home? Will I always be alone on the streets of Merced?"
And then another song about treats that I think your dogs might also like.
MB: Oh, they would love it. Here we go. Muffin is- I don't know if you can see her-
SMC: She's very interested.
MB: She's very interested. She would like to be on the [interview] as well.
Well, I'm sure she's got a lot. I'm happy to interview her. Muffin, how do you like your life here?
MB: [in Muffin's dog voice] I came from the mountains of Guadalajara. I came from the mountain.
[in Maria's human voice] Well, what else? She came from the mountains of Guadalajara. That's the only story we knew.
SMC: Her original name was Tooth Fairy Vallon.
Oh, wow. Do the former dogs ever break in? Like, do they ever channel through the dog voices and come back?
MB: Oh, yeah. Betty. Yeah. Betty is kind of our, our family's higher power. Like neither of us are real believers in God, but Betty is always there watching over us, except when she gets a little drunk and ends up dancing.
SMC: Well, she always wears those plastic Barbie doll shoes that are always bent outta shape. She's always wearing those. And we could tell she's been around. 'cause The little Barbie doll shoes will be around.
MB: Whenever we are having a rough time. Like sometimes, we're having a fight or something, then, Betty will come in and go,
MB: [in Betty's dog voice] C’mon guys.
SMC: Or she'll be on the wing of the plane if we're scared.
Oh, wow
SMC: Yeah. Or she'll sit on top of Maria's head sometimes.
MB: Yeah. We'll say, if we were stressed at something, did you see Betty? Betty was there.
SMC: Usually, she's laying on her back, exposing her little pink belly.
MB: Yeah.
SMC: Or being rude.
MB: Yeah. She was such a good girl. Yeah.
I wanna know how the book came about, and I wanna know your collaborative writing process. Like, how much of it was together, how much it wasn't. Was it Scott, were you just taking notes of your own family lore? Or did you both sit down and you were like, "okay, here's what has to happen."
SMC: No, it was ongoing. I would write things down or we'd always talk about an episode the dog had like, 'cause it was just ridiculous. Like when Bert disrupted our game of Scrabble, so then we would kiss. I mean, that really happened. And it was just the funniest thing. 'cause it seemed like he was just so frustrated with us because we hadn't kissed. And he was just like, "just do it" So it was always this part of our lore, or mythology, or whatever.
MB: Yeah. And another Bert [story], when he ate all the cupcakes after a party and went into a dreamy cupcake vision. Scott has always made comic books on his own, and so he was kind of making this thing and he comments, he asked me, "oh, take a look at this" or "what should I say here?" But it was mostly his. Like, he did, I feel like, 95% of the work. It was just really, it was so fun. Like, I would come in and just go, ah wonderful, this is so gorgeous. So yeah. But it was really easy to work together because he was interested in what I had to say. And I thought everything he did was gorgeous and beautiful.
SMC: Thank you.
One of my producers is making a lot of noise. One second.
SMC: <Laugh>.
It's the field producer.
SMC: Oh, okay. <Laugh>.
Where are you? Get outta here. Oh my God.
SMC: <Laugh>. Alright.
MB: Does she need to be held?
Field producer? Hermes, I need to tell you that. Oh, she just pooped a little bit.
MB: Aww. It's okay. It's okay.
We all do it. Producer Ponyo is blind.
SMC: Aww.
She never saw a tortoise before she went blind. So she thinks we have a poltergeist in the home. She treats Hermes as if she's a haunted rock.
MB: Aww.
Horrified by Hermes... And Hermes is very interested in Ponyo.
SMC: Aww.
MB: Hermes just wants to make a friend.
She's interested, she's curious. She wants to explore.
MB: Of course, of course.
SMC: Yeah. Betty was a blind dog and she would walk into Jackie a lot and Jackie would just get freaked out.
MB: Yeah.
I'm on some different Facebook animal groups and there's a blind dog animal group. And people are like, "will it be healing for my dog to get a sighted dog to help them?" And everyone's like, "no, absolutely not." Or just people will wanna get a puppy and the puppy will like, run ragged, will run over their blind dog. And their blind dog is like, "what's happened to my life?!"
MB: Muffin actually has been very helpful to Max. Like, she waits for him and guides him around. But she was also a little bit older. She wasn't a puppy. She was like four. And now she's an elegant teen. She's a teen.
SMC: But she hides all her greenies under the couch. And we didn't know this until another dog came over our house and found the greenies. She was a little upset.
MB: Yeah. One of the best parties we've ever had is we invited everybody over from the dog park with their dogs. We had thirty dogs in the house.
Thirty?
MB: Yeah. It was so fun. I totally wanna do it again. 'cause It was just…
SMC: But it's funny 'cause all the dogs moved together to each room.
MB: Yeah, they all ran in one thing together, and then ran to another, and then ran to it. It was so funny.
SMC: And there was, there was vomit, there was poop, there was pee, there was animals drinking out of the toilet. It was the best party we ever had.
How do you prepare for a dog party like that?
MB: You just let go. You let go and say this, this is gonna be off the chain.
SMC: But don't go near the records.
MB: Don't go near the records guys, but I don't think anybody did
SMC: No, no.
MB: So that's good. But yeah, the curtains got destroyed. But you can always put those in the washing machine. And, there was this one dog, Sadie, she just was like, "I'm an introvert." And she went on the, the porch. She sat porch by herself, just staring off into the night like, "mom...? dad...?"
SMC: But there was also a huge, like-
MB: Oh, a massive- what is that dog?
SMC: Newfoundland?
MB: Yeah, Newfoundland
SMC: It was like 110 pounds.
MB: That's Hugo- Hugo was running everywhere. Anyways, it was just so fun. It was just really lovely, joyful.
Oh my God. I feel like I would love to see the pack of thirty dogs going from room to room. Like, "what's in here, what's in here?"
SMC: All different sizes.
"What's in here?!" and then going back into the same room again, like they've never been there before.
There's like a whole new scent trail from like the five dogs in the back who left their anal smell that they, the ones in the front were like, "what's this?"
SMC: And then they were started playing with Muffin’s toys, and she wasn't too psyched about that.
Ohhhhhhhhh...
SMC: She was okay.
MB: Yeah, because there were so many dogs. We had two dogs over the other night, and then that was hard because the two dogs started playing with her stuff. And she could watch the two look through her stuff. And she could give 'em the side eye.
SMC: She would take the toy from their mouth and put it on the couch.
MB: Oh God.
"But this? I'm sorry, that's actually mine. Oh, I'm sorry."
SMC: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
MB: "You guys, no, that's not what you do with it. It's totally cool. Welcome to my home. And you can't use that one."
Yeah. She has a thousand. Whenever I go travel, I usually bring back a soft a soft item for myself, but also probably for Muffin.
Oh. She's like, "yeah, you guys are welcome to look through all those. But no. Oh, not that one."
MB: Not that one.
SMC: When, we got her, they said that even though she was fixed, she had a phantom pregnancy. 'cause her teats were out. And so, she had a phantom pregnancy. So, she believes she has puppies all the time.
MB: Yeah, yeah.
SMC: So, she loves her. She loves her toys. She carries 'em around.
MB: And then she eats their face off, which makes me worry about if maybe she was a mother. She's more of a show mom.
We all have different maternal instincts, you know, I think maybe my mom would do that if she had puppies.
MB: Right, right.
Let's just chew the face off just a little bit.
MB: Just a little bit. Just so that people know, it’s just prettier.
It's better that way.
MB: <Laugh>.
Scott, I had this whole narrative in my head around you that you were a painter. Your paintings have a high level of detail. And then I imagine you actually suffering in comics because I find comics to be suffering of where I'm like, [singing] "it's so many little lines. Oh, it's so much harder than anything else in the whole world."
SMC: Oh, I love it. That's what I started doing in the first place, was comics.
I had no idea! Well, I love the level of detail in this. I love all the hand drawn lines. How long did this book take you? Can you talk more about your comics process?
SMC: So, obviously we have a lot of photos of our dogs and our living situation, so we have so much reference material, so I can just collage 'em in my head or whatever and work it so it makes sense in the story. But I like drawing anyway. So, it just is a way of having it outta my sketchbook, you know? And I really just love the detail, getting into the detail and drawing with a, I use a brush usually. And yeah, I don't know, I just love it. It's like I love painting all the time, that's what I'd rather be doing than hanging out with people. So, I'm an introvert!
As somebody who has had many dogs... that have a rich interior life that I share with a partner... in an entire universe that we've built around them... there's something so satisfying about seeing all those inside jokes drawn on the page. Like- who is that was a person from Riverdance?
SMC: Oh, yeah. Michael Flatley.
Like seeing your dog as Michael Flatley.
SMC: Yeah.
MB: Yeah. Lord of the Dance.
SMC: Oh wait, the Fantagraphics printed up T-shirts.
MB: Yeah, they have t-shirts on.
Like, it's so perfect. And then of course we get to see the most beautiful depiction of Over the Rainbow Bridge.
SMC: Yeah.
For people who are [reading] who have not experienced [a pet's death], when you experience a pet death, somebody, maybe the veterinarian, sends you a card with the Rainbow Bridge poem, or somebody sends you the ancient website with the Rainbow Bridge poem.
SMC: Yes, yes.
My experience with the poem as being like, oh, that's so stupid... and then reading it out loud and sobbing.
SMC: Yeah. But even drawing the Rainbow Bridge, I was like, oh, this is so…what's the word?
Cathartic?
SMC: No, no. Initially I thought it was just so basic, like okay, this is like what everyone thinks. I wanted to do something a little more different than the rainbow, but the Rainbow Bridge is so appropriate. So, yeah.
MB: And yeah, there's something about it that is universal and what your hopes for these animals that have only brought you good memories. I feel like the animals, which everybody said, they're just all love. I hope nobody's animals are going to hell.
MB: The miniature Hamster Bonita. She might be in one of the…
SMC: She hit me a lot.
MB: <laugh>. She might be somewhere.
SMC: What was that little girl? She had a raccoon.
MB: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
SMC: And then she's like, "does it bite you? Yessssss."
MB: There's like an Instagram feed of this little girl who loves this baby raccoon. And her dad's like, "but does he bite you?" And she's like, "no. And then she goes, yes."
So what, It's my best friend.
MB: Doesn't matter. Who cares?
I feel like having to put down a dog is the hardest decision I've ever had to make. Do you now have any kind of rubric or kind of like checklist in your minds when you're deciding if it's time because you've been through it so many times in short succession?
SMC: It's odd. Blueberry, she was having seizures, but she would always run into the kitchen and have the seizure where she would lose all control of her bowels. But it would happen like every two or three months. And then one day she ran towards us and had the seizure on our feet at the couch. It was like, oh, it's time for her to go. Because it was like she was saying, I don't wanna do this anymore. And for whatever reason, she connected with us.
MB: Yeah. They started coming on a daily basis, a few times a day.
SMC: The seizures.
MB: She was just really struggling and not eating as much.
SMC: But on the day, we had someone come to our house to put her down the day she, the lady was coming to the house, and about an hour before, Blueberry climbed into the same spot where we had put Bert down.
MB: Oh, yeah.
SMC: So, she knew what was happening, what was about to happen,
Wow.
SMC: I don't know. That's how I looked at it. It was like, "what is she doing?" She's sitting and she never sat in that place. But she was getting ready and it was kind of amazing.
MB: Yeah.
SMC: But it's happened a few times where the dogs kind of let you know. You just kind of intuitively kind of know. You don't wanna let 'em go. But they’re suffering.
MB: Yeah. I always think like, what would I want? You know, what would I want, I mean, it's written into our will and all that stuff. And I'm just like, "oh my God, if I cannot enjoy a hot fudge sundae, please unplug."
SMC: But we have a veterinarian and he helps us too. He'll tell us, oh, they have cancer, they have this, that, and other thing. And he goes, go buy 'em a Big Mac. Or buy 'em pizza. Nine times out 10. The dogs are just like, this is the greatest going away gift.
MB: But yeah I think it's pretty hard to know. I mean, we had some friends who just had their dog was really suffering for a long time, like not able to walk. But then on the day that they were gonna have someone come over the, from the vet, the dog got up and wanted to go outside and actually wanted to be put down outside where he used to lay down on the grass. So, they're like, "oh my God, he's walking! Like, oh my God, are we monsters?" And then he was like, "no, I just wanna lay on the grass." So, yeah, I don't know.
I don't think, at least I don't feel like I do know. I think it never gets easy.
SMC: You're always like, oh, I'll get used to this. Nah, it's nothing you're gonna get used to.
Yeah. And then there's kind of no container in society for pet grief. Like I can't answer emails or do anything 'cause my dog died. People are like, "oh, it's been like a week though, so, is it good now?" And it's like a family member.
MB: Yeah, exactly. For sure.
SMC: I know. I felt more grief towards my dogs passing than my parents.
MB: Yeah. And I don't think I don't think I've had that experience. For sure my first, my first dog I felt just gutted. But now my parent, my parents have died. And I go, okay, that was hard, my parents dying. But I also wish doggie could live forever, 'cause it'd be pretty fun. But I like also having older dogs. 'cause I think, I don't know if I always follow this, but I feel like that compassion that you have for people can help. Like, people slowing down or people needing more help. That’s the kind of compassion I hope I have for human beings as well. And I hope that I'll receive that I'll receive as I'm aging right now, I'm slowing down myself.
SMC: Or someone will put us in a wagon and carry us-
MB: Put us in a wagon, wheel us around. Put voices through us, give us jobs.
You're both in your wagon getting wheeled through Griffith Park and someone's like, [in dog voice] "Hey, get out the way. This is bunk!"
MB: [in character voices] This is Mr. Cassidy. He's your plumber, this is Mrs. Bamford, She’s a schoolteacher who also serves lunch during the day.
There's something so beautiful about your Rainbow Bridge depictions of everyone's ears flapping in the wind as they gallop! It's so tender.
SMC: Aw, that's nice.
MB: Yeah.
And just being able to see the portraits of them, the portraits of them napping. The last thing I wanna ask you about is can- we briefly talk about your frat boy neighbors?
SMC: Oh my God. From Occidental.
MB: Gee. Yeah.
SMC: That was a big to-do. I mean, that was like three years of dealing with these, they're water polo team guys. I'm six one and they're all bigger than I am. And all of a sudden, like I'm a nerd again. I'm the guy that's telling them to stop. And you would go over there at like two in the morning to tell 'em to turn the music off. And they go, "what are you doing here, bro?" And you'd be like, "whaaaaaat?" You were so nice to me yesterday! And then they'd throw trash in our yard, and then sometimes there'd be like 80 of them partying and you'd just be over there like, come on dude.
MB: They'd have all these hot ladies in their bikinis. And I'm like, [in sheepish voice] "I am sorry. Can you guys quiet down? I was hoping to journal today... I was hoping to journal in my home"
SMC: Yeah. The school would have town meetings for the community, just to get some input. And I went there and I just laid into 'em saying, "the only two things your college is known for is Obama smoked weed there, and that you have a rape culture." 'Cause there was a movie made about the rape culture there. And I just laid into him and there was police there and everything. And then afterwards, one of the local community groups was like, "could you be our spokesperson?" I was like, "No, no, no, no, no!"
It was like Ferdinand the bull. Like, I was pissed off about that situation at that time, I am not a public speaker!
Like, "I'm not gonna show up every week and remind 'em about the rape culture."
SMC: Exactly.
MB: <Laugh>. Well, yeah. I think this happens in any community where there's a university. It's because the enormous amount of funding. The campus police doesn't police the local kids who are living in private housing. And then the local police doesn't have the time to police campus kids. They're like, "we're trying to stop gang violence." So yeah. You can't do anything as demonstrated by the movie Neighbors.
SMC: <laugh>,
I didn't see that movie!
MB: That is exactly what it's all about. My sister's a very spiritual person and she told me to put a flower mandala on our front lawn to change the energy, change the vibe.
So that's what happened? And it worked?
MB: Well. I was putting out all the delicate petals of the flower mandala in the pattern that she suggested while having sage burning on the front lawn
SMC: <laugh>
MB: and down the block from these guys rolling a rusty old barbecue. And it's the guys from the frat house and they're gonna play beer pong at 10:00 AM...
SMC: And now we're like, we gotta get outta here
MB: I was like, there's nothing more powerful than beer pong. God cannot trump beer pong.
And God's will for the neighborhood was beer pong.
SMC: Yeah. And we moved out the day they were having a huge get together there. They were having a massive bash. And I think in some ways I think they felt they won or something, but now the house has been sold like three times. It's beautiful, because of the noise.
MB: Yeah. We totally were upfront with the people moving in we're like, it is a noise issue and it will not stop. And they were like, the guy who bought it was a DJ.
Oh, he's great.
MB: He was a DJ and then he had his wife and his baby. And I was like, "ohhh, okay..."
SMC: But they still couldn't hack it.
MB: I think they moved out a month or a year later or something,
SMC: And then it sold two more times
MB: And now a student owns it.
It just needs to become a frat block, I guess.
SMC: I think so. Yeah.
MB: Could be.
Oh boy- Well, is there anything else you wanna say about your book? Anything else about the process?Is there anything you want them to know? Any deep comics thing that you always wish people would ask you about this book?
SMC: Well, I tell you Dan Clowes is probably the big influence and Art Spiegelman, just because I love his work so much, but I'm not a comic books guy. I could care less about Marvel, even though that's my middle name or DC or any of that. I mean, I don't hate it. It's just not what I'm motivated by. I particularly like the artistic aspect of Clowes and Art Spiegelman.
MB: That was the one thing that kind of won me over on our second date. He brought one of his comic books The Ephebic Hobbledehoy he had made. And I was just like, what? It was a memoir and his childhood, and so beautiful. I like more of the storytelling. I mean, not that there isn't storytelling- my friend Jackie is totally into Marvel, and she goes to the free comic book Wednesdays.
SMC: One time Art Spiegelman came to Philadelphia, that's where I'm from. And he was gonna do a book signing of his first edition of Maus-
Wow.
SMC: So, I thought, "I have to go to this" So, I went and it was just me and another person was there at the book signing... and the other person was Charles Burns.
Whoa!
SMC: This was like 1984, 85, something like that. I was like, "wow. That, that was fun." So, we all got to hang out and talk.
It was meant to be.
SMC: Yeah
MB: It was meant to be. But thank you so much for your time and for your interest in interviewing us, and oh my gosh-
NICOLE: And I don't know if anyone has ever offered you a shelter dog in an interview, but I do have a senior right now who I would love to show you <laugh>.
MB: Yes, please.
Okay. Hold on one second.
MB: One second.
SMC: [admiringly] Oh my God...
MB: Oh Lord...
No pressure-
MB: <Laugh>. Oh God.
If you know anybody looking for a wonderful, oh, he is just waking up. He is very sleepy guy.
SMC: Oh, very busy.
A 12-Year-Old gentleman. His name is Marley. But that's the name he came with. His family died and took him to the shelter. And then his roommate got adopted, but he didn't. He's got a funny foot that goes outwards.
MB: Love it.
SMC: Aw.
I think he's thirsty. I don't think he is even just licking 'cause He is uncomfortable. I think he's thirsty.
MB: What's he made of? Does he like to run around or is he pretty…
He doesn't like to run around. He likes to lay in his bed like 20 hours a day.
MB: Nice.
I take him for walks and sometimes it's torture, but sometimes he's excited and hopping, depending on the motivation.
SMC: Awww.
MB: Okay.
...or like how he's feeling that day. He's a little shy, but he is very workable. He is kind of nice. He wants to cuddle, he seems like he's part wiener dog.
MB: Oh, okay. Is he friendly with other doggies?
He is. Like I tried to get him as Ponyo's Golden Bachelor.
MB: <Laugh>,
I felt like, she's blind, so she needs somebody who's very calm and can handle her bumping into them and stuff. And he…
MB: He's a little hyped.
He’s like totally fine. Like she bumps into him and he is like, sorry.
MB: Aww.
And he was just being fostered with a lady that had like a giant Saint Bernard puppy.
MB: Oh. Oh, wow.
And he didn't love it, but he totally held it together. And he kind of does wanna be Ponyo’s… he's just like a quiet participant.
MB: Awww, oh, so sweet.
If you know anybody…
MB: If we hear about anybody, or if we get a, a-hankering he's at…
He's at a place called The HIT Foundation. He's such a sweet guy. But I need somebody that can travel with me and go when I teach comics classes. He's a little too shy to be like a road dog.
MB: Oh, okay.
Like, he doesn't enjoy that.
MB: Aw. So, you teach comics classes?
Mm-Hmm, I teach independent graphic memoir classes, and then I teach at an MFA program for cartoonists
MB: Because I was telling Scott, I just applied at [indie publisher]. Like, I wanted to make something. And anyways, they turned it down my idea for something. 'Cause I have an audio book that I did just for Audible, which is how-to a 14 steps guide to doing standup comedy, forcing yourself [You Are (A Comedy) Special: A Simple 15-Step Self-Help Guide to Forcibly Force Yourself to Write and Perform a Full Hour of Stand-up Comedy], and and so I wanted to do a book version of it. And I just don't know how to…
SMC: A graphic novel version.
MB: Yeah, kind of. Maybe a graphic novel version.. but maybe with me doing the drawings, which I'm not a great artist, but…
I would love that.
MB: I know I am who it needs to come from. Like, I need to, because I need to make it as much, take it as far as I can take it, and then get help. I just like the idea of- I always love books, so I love the idea of it being printed out, which I may be wrong.
NICOLE: No, I don't think it's wrong.
I love comics. I love especially, I always love teaching people that are or working with people that are like newer to drawing comics too.
MB: Yeah. I've seen comics that are, I love oh, what is that called? When you teach yourself art?
SMC: Self-taught?
MB: No. Well, self-taught. But isn't it called like outsider arts?
Oh, I love outsider art.
MB: I'm not an outsider artist in that I’m not in a rural area, obsessed. But yeah, the idea that I could make my own things seems kind of funny and fun.
Yeah. And like, it coming from your hand, there's just something so magical about that.
MB: Well, yeah. And 'cause comedians, you're always carrying a notebook around. Not everybody does notebooks, but I love having a notebook and I always love carrying books around. I love carrying a book around, sometimes Scott then ends up carrying those books.
Oh wow.
SMC: She always takes books with her.
MB: I always wanna have a book in case, just in case!
Well, you need that. My teacher Lynda Berry, who's like my….
SMC: Yeah, she's awesome.
I was say the Grand Wizard, but that's not the right [Scott laughs]. My ultimate teacher, Linda Barry, I went to interview her for something before and in her own hotel room, she was wearing a lanyard with Sharpies on it, just in case she thought of anything that she needed to write down. Like she wasn't even out in the world. She was in her own private hotel room wearing a lanyard just ready with her notebook in her pocket to write down any details should they come to her.
MB: That's wonderful. And that's what makes life exciting, that anything can be a incredible idea. That's wonderful. Oh, that's cool.
All right, Nicole. Thank you so much.
SMC: Thank you so much. Thank you.
You both of you, thanks for taking the time to talk to me.
SMC: No problem. Thank you.
Aside from HIT Living Dog Rescue linked in the interview above, aid can also be given through Sulala Animal Rescue - ed.
The post Maria Bamford and Scott Marvel Cassidy on 5 senior dogs in heaven, 6 gallons of ice cream in the trash, and their graphic memoir, Hogbook and Lazer Eyes appeared first on The Comics Journal.
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